|
|
Post by saxnot on Apr 13, 2016 12:27:28 GMT
When I first came here I was a bit reticent of treading on toes, I have so little knowledge of modern practice that I avoided some subjects, I have now come to the conclusion speaking freely will upset no one. I think I may have found things which are not widely known. Yes I have looked with just my own eyes, and when you meet an eccentric who thinks differently than anyone else the rule of thumb is they are nuts. However I think if you look at my work and test it, I think you may find what I say is quite reasonable. I wish to share this view of Tyr with you all I think you may become Tyr-wise in doing so.  If I was to say to you I look at this star chart and see Tyr Fenrir wolf and Tyr's hand clearly in it, I would not blame you for thinking me mad, how could I prove any thoughts with a few scattered spots of light. Before I go on there are a few things I want to get out of the way. It is said that in Asatru Odin's men and Tyr's men often fight. I can understand this coming from a christard top down culture, It is hard to imagine shared leadership. For instance in the film the 300 about Sparta we know they had two kings, and the modern imagination can only express that as- if one is good then the other must be bad. The thought that our gods worked together for common cause one leading then another then another and so on according to their abilities without opposition just a friendly rivalry is hard to understand for a person of that background. If I can make the case for what I think I have seen, a lot of things I think may fall into place for all of us looking at the old ways. Tyr the 'sky father' I think has that title for a very good reason. And is also considered the father of the first seagoing nations. The Anglo-Saxon Rune Poem says The writer of the poem could blatantly say this because he knew the christards around him would presume it meant a moving star like the fictitious star of Bethlehem and would thus never find anything. But it does point that we will find our sky god in the night sky. I think I have found him. I want you to look at the constellation known as the Big and little dipper, or the plough, or Ursa major and Ursa minor, the big and little bear (Bear and Tyr connection interesting). So lets look at the constellation, I made these illustrations.  In fig 1 we see the big and little dipper constellation and at the tail of the little dipper is the pole star Polaris true north the point all sailors know to navigate with. it is the one point in the sky that does not move. In figs 2 and 3 we could imagine the stars of the constellation connected in different ways like a man Rune or a Tyr Rune, but these are simple shapes hardly proof, a lot of stars in the sky could be connected to look like a Tyr Rune. However that this constellation does look like a large Tyr Rune and a smaller version of the same thing is interesting if we think of the god with his separated arm. Fig 4, Look at that part of the night sky between the big and little dipper we find the constellation Draco, we could say this constellation seperates the big and little dipper or the arm from the body. yes that also fits with the story of Tyr but it is not proof unless I could tie Draco to Fenrir wolf with such a clear vison that we would see Tyr Tyr and the wolf. I would like you to look at Draco and think what it looks like a large curve going round the little dipper then a sharp square end and then a line going back to a diagonal square. Ok look at this-  See the large open gaping mouth the square nose the snout going back to a diagonal square-ish eye. We have Tyr tyr's arm Fenrir's open mouth with Tyr's arm holding the mouth open tethering the wolf to the one spot in the sky that the rest revolves around through the night and through the seasons.  Or to put it another way we could say Fenrir circles the point chasing or driving the sun and moon. In the Egyptian pantheon Ra is the highest god because he controled the dragon of chaos and in so doing created the world. If we accept this image of Tyr binding the chaotic wolf so that it drives the sun and moon and in so doing creating the time and space in which we live has he not achieved the same? Least ways we can see Tyr is giving the time for Odin to get things ready for Radnarok and to try to create a better future?  A very old image of the seasons turning and driving force of life.  Tyr's arm holding the wolf jaws apart creates the one point in the sky that never moves, is always reliable the hub, the omphalos of the heavens. Icelandic rune poem Norwegian rune poem Is this not telling us that Tyr fans the flame controls the energy that drives the heavens? If you read the Anglo-Saxon poem the Wanderer that has not been translated falsely by a christard it is all about a man in his blackest hour that has lost everything is still able to turn to his old sky father and they can keep faith. When all else is lost there we can see Tyr reliable solid holding things together. Tyr creates the fair ground on which we can stand, a just god, Tyr fights for us, a war god. And for a people who navigate our reference point our father sky god. Tyr Tyr Tyr!  |
|
|
|
Post by huginandmunin on Apr 13, 2016 14:13:58 GMT
I think your ideas are spot on. Recently during meditations I thought that runes may have stellar associations. From my previous esoteric and anthropological exclusion I came to the conclusion that the stats were very important to all cultures. The first shamanistic religions held astrological events in high regard and our own traditions have blot that are related to the solstices and equinoxes. The lore even had instances of the gods setting stars in the sky.
I think this is one area of Northern belief that is still too be fully recovered.
|
|
|
|
Post by saxnot on Apr 14, 2016 2:02:51 GMT
 Gold bracteate or amulet made about 500ce early Germanic style found in Sweden. I think in looking at this small piece of jewellery to be worn around a neck for good fortune can tell us a lot about the god Tyr. We can tell this is the god Tyr because of the wolf biting his hand. That tells the story of the god, but there are other details here which I think can be used to tell more of the story. The wide ark of lines that spread from Tyr's forehead are said to be by some academics to represent his hair. this is not likely no other images have Tyr with long flowing hair and it is not something you would stick on a figure just for the hell of it especially if you made your living from selling the gold items you made. I propose that arch of lines curving over his head represents the arch of the sky. You might notice the fine line around his head connecting to the ark like a strap as if the sky is his hat, So we have in my view Tyr wearing the sky like some figures wear horns to show power, this I think shows Tyr as a sky god, father of the sky, and it seems to me it is a clever little graphic device to tell that story. If that is the case then in all probability the four balls between him and the arch might represent stars of even the planets. Now if we look at his hand which is not being bitten, we see he is holding something. Most academics say this is the hilt of a sword. As odd as that may sound it does look like other hilts of swords were depicted at this time, but where is the blade? It is very odd that the artist would draw him holding just a handle when either the image could be easily changed to show a whole sword or the hand could be drawn without holding anything and it would not affect the amulet much. My thought is that he is not holding a sword at all, but a set of balances or scales, the symbol of justice. Now that may seem strange as the scales of justice is a Greek/Roman symbol it is not associated with the northern traditions, that is true but there have been other bracteates made at this time found with images of Romulus and Remus on them, so in fact it would not be that strange for gold worker to also borrow other symbols to incorporate into his work. And that symbol of scales would display very well Tyr as a god of justice. Lastly the craftsman that made this went to the trouble of putting nipples on the god's chest this would be at the very edge of detail the artist would be able to add to this image so we know that even though this detail is tiny it must be quiet important for its maker to go to the bother of addin g it. So the Artist saw it is important to show this god is like Vladimir Putin and goes about bare chested.
|
|
|
|
Post by huginandmunin on Apr 14, 2016 10:42:05 GMT
Hmm, you may be onto something. If you look at the scale there are four dots at the corners and a line of dots following through his neck terminating at his hand. Looks like the big dipper ending at his hands as the north star to me.
|
|
|
|
Post by saxnot on Apr 14, 2016 11:58:10 GMT
Yes I felt the same as you, but I can't say if that is coming from my head because I associate Tyr with the northern constellation so my mind looks for connections which might not be there, or whether I am being guided by other forces which have deeper truths. The reason I stepped from being an atheist is that I feel there is something unquantifiable acting on me. Another thing I noticed is the shape of the figure. Now the shape is the usual way a simple graphic figure is drawn that is holding things, you will see it frequently in childrens drawings, and other artifacts of a similar nature so there can be a thousand and one reasons the figure is standing in that pose. Having said that the thin line going round the head seperating it from the body might just be signifigant because it is telling us to look at the body for its own signifigance.  (Sorry I could not find a smaller representation of the rune I want us to look at on the net.) If we look at the first rune of the fifth row and then the body of the figure I think we can see the same shape so can we draw information from that or is this just coincidental? |
|
|
|
Post by gilly on Apr 14, 2016 12:28:51 GMT
These discoveries are very insightful. Love Vlad on the bear...he understands the power of symbolism. Tyr energy is Mars energy....all the paths seem to converge in Astology/Astronomy/Sacred geometry. It's a universal language. The more correspondences I can make, the greater the understanding of the energy the rune embodies. Microcosm/Macrocosm...the symbolism is everywhere. I have to be very careful calling upon Tyr energy, I can see myself a berserker in the right circumstance. The power is overwhelming and difficult to control. In this world of political correctness, Tyr is delegated to the shadow self. So glad to see he is alive and respected in Asatru/heathenism or the Northern way. Have to wonder if Putin is really a Christian... he projects something else entirely.
|
|
|
|
Post by huginandmunin on Apr 14, 2016 23:29:52 GMT
If we look at the first rune of the fifth row and then the body of the figure I think we can see the same shape so can we draw information from that or is this just coincidental? Honestly, I'm not quite sure yet. Discovering the astrological associations of the North is something I'm just now beginning. I've done varied anthropological research on how other cultures viewed the constellations and since our history in this area is lacking there is a lot to be discovered and discussed. I do think this thread is going somewhere though. |
|
|
|
Post by saxnot on Apr 15, 2016 2:50:06 GMT
I know the figure is drawn with wide shoulders, to show a certain physicality, but if we look at the arms they make a 'W' shape like the top of that rune. There is a constellation that is very promenant in the sky and easy to find Cassiopeia and can be used to find the north star.  Although the stars of the constellation I think of as Fenrir are not joined up in this image and we can't see the stars of his eye, I hope his gaping mouth and nose are now easy for everyone to see. The following is pure speculation on my part. Týr, Teiws, Tīw, Ziu, Cyo, Tīwaz, Tius, Tio, Dyeus, these names of Tyr all mean god, it is suggested that his wife mentioned by Loki but not named is Zisa, Cisa, Zisa, which is almost the same sounding name. If we look at the rune for Tyr and this other rune they are very similar, and in the places where this other rune is used the word for it also is tied to meaning deity. So the Greeks referred to that constellation as Cassiopeia a beautiful queen with a beautiful daughter bound to a chair who's land was swamped by the sea. remember that. Huginandmunin it is really good you have studied anthropology this makes the next bit easier. I don't think that European people came from the east. Yes I know that the Roman aristocracy claim to come from Troy and European aristocracy claim a Roman heritage and the bloodlines of those super rich American families all show Aristocratic roots so for them that might be true and the Roman's always considered the Gauls as they referred to all northern Europeans up to Ceasar as blood enemies. The story of Celts and Aryans coming from the east is now being seriously questioned. DNA evidence shows a connection between peoples now but it cannot show who came first, so did people from the middle east come to Europe or did Europeans expand into the middle east and India. Europe during the ice age was covered in deep snow and ice, down to the edge of London and southern France in those wastes nobody could live. So it would seem the only explanation for the European race is that they must have come from outside Europe. I say yes and no. What is now the north sea was during the Ice age land and that is a very big area, and while the higher parts of Europe were covered in snow this area was abundant and fruitful, all sorts of Animals lived there including mammoths and was populated with Neanderthals who had lived in Europe for 200 thousand years and what are called modern men coming up from Africa. I think these two groups mixed and in so doing there the European race was born. Europeans have 3-7% Neanderthal genes most authorities agree. When the climate started warming and the sea rose the people moved from the sinking land and into the hills that had been covered in snow. As they moved westward they encountered new environments like arid areas and found new ways to live there like developing crops, using irrigation which they had some knowledge of because in the ground of the North sea there are signs I have been told the people tried to bank up the land against the encroaching sea. Then these new techniques of farming were telegraphed back to the other people of Europe.We can also imagine why the ship became such an important symbol to a people who's land was sinking. And I think we should listen to the folk traditions where the people say we are the folk of this land. There is archaeological evidence for the worship of bears from this time, which is both pertinent to shamanism and Tyr who is closely associated with the bear. So lets look at Cassiopeia bound to a chair is this a reference to Tyr's binding with the wolf is Cassiopeia not in the sky looking at her daughter bound but her husband? The sinking land could that be a very old story, a folk memory passed down, and a reoccurring story in Norse myth. Oh and the beautiful daughter, When Pope Gregory 1st saw in the slave market in Rome some English children he asked who those beautiful slaves were he was told they were Angles, his reply was- 'Not Angles but angels' and it was from then the decision was made for the conversion of Northern Europe. |
|
|
|
Post by saxnot on Apr 15, 2016 4:49:47 GMT
 Silly me I should have added this ASRP ᛠ [ear] byþ egle eorla gehwylcun, / ðonn[e] fæstlice flæsc onginneþ, / hraw colian, hrusan ceosan / blac to gebeddan; bleda gedreosaþ,/ wynna gewitaþ, wera geswicaþ. " ᛠ [ear] is horrible to every man, / when the corpse quickly begins to cool / and is laid in the bosom of the dark earth. / Prosperity declines, happiness passes away / and covenants are broken." If we think that this rune represents Tyr's wife then this meaning becomes to my mind quite prophetic She is trapped looking at her husband bound restraining the wolf and the only release will be when he dies. In wishing him free is she also wishing his death covenant/bonds broken? Then we think of the Queen of the north, Cassiopeia prosperity declining as her land sank into the sea this all seems to me to be very relevant. |
|
|
|
Post by saxnot on Apr 15, 2016 7:14:46 GMT
and and and, sorry I keep on finding I want to add bits, so I'm not making good well rounded posts on one subject at a time. If anybody doubts our ancestors had a great knowledge of the stars the discovery of this artefact puts pay to that.  The Nebra sky disk Did you notice in that that although this is the earliest representation of the sky our ancestors are only credited with bringing other peoples ideas together, in every other archaeological discovery the oldest object is said to be where the idea was invented. The sun ship Egyptian? Oh the ship would not have deep roots in Northern European culture then? I know what people will say that's just one documentary nobody is trying to hide the abilities of northern Europeans. OK look at this wiki page on the Pleiades where it covers the cultures that used these stars it even mentions the the Nebra sky disk, but oddly German or Teutonic is not mentioned at all. Wiki link
I come across that sort of thing all the time and once in while I have to shout. Rant over. But I hope this post shows that Northern Europeans from as early as we can tell had a very good knowledge of the night sky. |
|
|
|
Post by gilly on Apr 15, 2016 12:35:21 GMT
The symbol for Mars is also similar to Tyr, and male... The hermetic universal law of gender holds true. There certainly is a meeting at the top of the pyramid, where all paths converge into one. The native Americans hold that beings from the stars are their ancestors. I think it likely some advanced beings tweaked the gene pools of Neanderthal, Denisovans,etc and voila...you have different races. So, was Odin the original seed from the Pleiades or another star system? Seems a logical explanation to me. Survival of the fittest in the manifest universe seems to be another universal law of nature/matter. What is responsible the for native European strong sense of individuality? It's in the blood and in the genes. I don't think Odin/Northern European peoples came from the East either. It is a daunting task to study the migration patterns of people, like walking in a very complex maze that keeps changing...
|
|
|
|
Post by saxnot on Apr 15, 2016 17:08:08 GMT
Personally the starman interference ideas I would need a lot more evidence to consider, but I am biased I spent a long time looking at those sort of conspiracy theories, I and I feel they lead to inertia. 'There is lots wrong with the world that we can't deal with, but someday the starman will come back and save us all', to me just looks like a retelling of christianity, and the very opposite of the philosophy behind our old ways. But in every thing else you say gilly I am more than with you. On Putin yes he it seems to me is trying to cloak himself in a Tyr like image, but I am not sure what lies under that if anything at all apart from personal aggrandisement. Like so many politicians it seems to me he will say anything to anybody for his own gain. Oh and while we are looking at very early Europe, how old are some of the runes?  |
|
|
|
Post by italianboar on Apr 15, 2016 21:59:57 GMT
Personally the starman interference ideas I would need a lot more evidence to consider, but I am biased I spent a long time looking at those sort of conspiracy theories, I and I feel they lead to inertia. 'There is lots wrong with the world that we can't deal with, but someday the starman will come back and save us all', to me just looks like a retelling of christianity, and the very opposite of the philosophy behind our old ways. But in every thing else you say gilly I am more than with you. I personally agree on the fact that conspiracy theories/sons of alien/interbreeding with aliens stuff are mislading most times. I used to have a great interest in them, and was lucky enough to study researchers who had basically a sense of sobriety, but the common theme in most studies which assume Zecharia Sitchin views as valid is we are powerless and dependent. And yes, we need someone to save us...."Interstellar abrahamism" we may say. Plus, some have in common the certainty the earth is not our mother, which is quite worse, with its rippling effects. Just take a look at what has been done to the planet in the name of progress and science, by the convinction that "it's just a rock floating in the space". There are also system of believes which try to convince that we as european are not originally from the earth, but come from the stars, so we should consider ourselves as "intruders", and the other ethnicities as the "original inhabitants"...which is quite a dangerous way of thinking, considering the difficulties europeans are facing right now in their homeland. I subscribe on alien stuff to the final view points and conclusions of researchers John E. Keel and Jaques Vallee, plus the archons theory of alien intrusion by John Lamb Lash. Archons, or whatever you want to call them, are not just a theory amongst other. Plus, Lash ( and the other two as well ) possesses a strong sense of sobriety and feet well grounded on earth. However, honestly I don't descard other material because once you have your spiritual lens well adjusted, and you know where you come from, what your spiritual roots are, you can still find seeds here and there, even in theories which are 75% unsostainable. You can go on connecting the dots. And remain opened in your mind without losing your center. |
|
|
|
Post by italianboar on Apr 15, 2016 22:02:07 GMT
...And Saxnot, Tyr wise is a great thread!
|
|
|
|
Post by saxnot on Apr 18, 2016 12:00:50 GMT
Tyr the war god. The Romans when talking about the Teutonic tribes, talk about a war god and that seems to strongly fit with Tyr, on the other hand In reading the Icelandic sagas and other material about the Vikings it is clear Odin is the primary war god, there are other references to Thor, Frig and Freya etc. I think some modern readers may be getting caught up in terminology rather than getting to a better understanding. A Roman would think of there only being one war god, their gods had precise defined areas of control. So a Roman might ask - 'who is your war god?' and a German might answer Tyr, but the Roman would not even think of asking how many gods of war do you have so the Roman has got an answer that he records, but has not got to a deeper truth. Some thousand or fifteen hundred years latter we come to what was written and say here it says this and there it says that and argue over the difference. I think there is another way of looking at what was written. lets not fix on the word war and instead use the word conflict. So who would we say is the god of conflict? I think our answer to that question would have to depend on what the conflict was about, what a side in the conflict would think of the conflict to be for, or even what was to be gained or lost in the conflict. So depending on the conflict we might think of many possible gods that we might turn to. The media depicts what is called the Viking expansion as Vikings attacking everybody, but is that true? In fact what I see of the attacks and raids over admittedly wide area that are quite precise and aimed. It to me looks like a war against the Holy Roman Empire the Roman church and their allies. So that, in that war the Vikings evoked one leading god just looks like good sense, from the Celtic or should we say western European major wars of the earliest times a war leader would always be elected to lead the conflict, so it should not be surprising a god acted in the same way. if we look at the history we find Tyr a god of justice leading the Germans to defend their land from the Romans, and in the more aggressive war attacking back the forces that threaten Scandinavia but as yet have not attacked Odin would be a natural leader partly as he is a god that is looking to things that are to come, unlike Tyr who is involved with the fight going on now with Fenrir. This would also explain why when the earliest history is mentioned Thor would be chosen to lead because being of the folk and in wars needed to secure the land for the folk he also would be the natural god to lead., but not quite as good for the German Roman conflict where the Romans were not going to remove all the Germans from Germany but rather just wanted control over them. Similarly if you were to enter a conflict which was about what would be gained from fighting it you might be best to turn to Frey and wear a boar's helmet to bring victory  Like a farmer does when he fights the dark earth to get a harvest. |
|
